I can go grab the pictures if you'd like as proof. If you would have told me you hit the outsides of the turret face no real angling makes it any flatter than what it is. There is 0 reason why an AD-4 or P-47 should be causing you any issue. If you check old war images of M4 tanks, you will see that not all of them had turret mounted .50cals. Noone does the same with panthers. Also, you're making it sound like the T__ has bad hull armor, which it absolutely doesn't. Depends on the BR really. I lately used my FW190 D13 with one 500kg bomb as Fighter/Ground Attacker. I'd certainly replace the Hs 129B-2/MK 103 if the Bf 110G was a Tier III vehicle. Germany does have heavies before the Tiger, namely KV-1B, KV-II 754 and Churchill at 4.0 and KV-1C at 4.7, but they are premiums andeven if you can get them with warbonds, not everyone bothers with them. The first two points can be resolved by reforming the German tree to not have the jumps that it has and by requiring players to unlock more vehicles to progress to such higher BRs (as other nations have). 1. Mobility: The complaint: One of the most common complaints that is leveled against the nation of Germany is a perceived lack of mobility. history projects. German early jets are outperformed by pretty much by everything at their br. At least 5 times! Spitfires can see the issue. Absolutely you're right on that point, but let's turn the tables here for some perspective. It's best to make do with what you have at the moment plus its amusing flanking with big bulky vehicles. its a combo of bad general movility (its not only foward speed its also traverse speed and reverse speed) and bad gun handling (turret traverse speed and gun elevation speed) mixed with a terrible map design that make the game some kind ofcall of duty playstyle. And 5.7 tanks can pen American tanks. Objectives are death traps usually placed in a way that does favour German CATs, but you know that quite well. This and the blinding factor is a massive inbalance. For the record, I am always sporting a tank only line-up in ground battles, I just hate planes and helis in ground battles. Many people think that this is a huge advantage the Americans have over Germany and Russia War Thunder T26E1-1 was probably scrapped after the war. Centurions have a 2-plane stabilizer that for some reason acts like it's from 2020, which lets you use hard cover or play behind a hill, only popping your turret out briefly to take easy shots. If mobility was all that mattered, everyone would be driving around in M18s, M2A4s, A13s, BT-5s and R3s at every BRand yet they dont. What do you expect? while proclaiming yourself in some sort of 'neutral good' position. Despite the complaints about Germany's WRs, they're not bad really. Armor is lolpened by DM33 and higher. The T34 where as it has more penetration it has a longer reload and solid shot which recently seems to have suffered a reduced damage output off it round. Usually it's the other way around, the M18 waits around for a target and looks around corners with the third person view camera. But the issue is most players have these vehicles they weren't exclusive or timed events. The best editions of doctor oz supplement pills for ed Florus are Duker s, 2 vols. I just read this post and simply had to react because you draw all the wrong conclusions.And BTW i also played all three major nations. But in that case the T95 is also a good flanker. What's clear is how later German vehicles are designed to deal with tanks at long range, making use of frontal armor, penetreation and RoF. It depends; the objectives can be just as deadly for lightweights too. The tracks make it immune to long 88 and actually work as spaced armor against HEAT. I invite others to list other claims of alleged German suffering so that those can be talked about. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. As for the Panthers' turret traverse, except for the D variant, all are quite well suited for engagement at medium to long ranges. If it's perfectly fine as a comparison, then why is CQC fighting the rulewhen GJ is designing maps,while we clearly can make it a more interesting battle if every nation can face their strengths and shortcomings on the battlefield. The Germany newbies will complain that their chosen tank sucks and the Germany veterans are in their meta premiums taking out entire enemy teams. Not meta. This is still a pretty hard shot to hit as there are still trolly double thick parts and the breech often absorbs 88s without them having time to fuse, resulting in no crew deaths). War Thunder trading. Side turret is 150mm or higher so angling is really easy as well. The T28 is indeed scumy, not because its to op but because its almost the same tank as the T95 but at a lower br also the side armor thing matters a lot, this is a slow tank, THE slowest tank actually, the panther and tiger have enough speed to compansate for it unlike the HUGE top speed of 13 km/h that the T28. Interesting thing about predicting the predictable itshighly accurate. He can easily continue flank and pen King Tigers from the side. Armor. The stock ammo misery for every leos and m48 etc. I've heard that damage output might be linked to vehicle tiers and the Puma is just rank 2. So, lets dive in to look at some of the most common claims: One of the most common complaints that is leveled against the nation of Germany is a perceived lack of mobility. It's not pleasant to head into an area that's being directly contested, but if you want to win that's how you do it. I think it's important to call out that there are a lot of different aspects to mobility. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. But if you miss me or I see that you are aiming at me, then it is easy for me to get in cover. And if you talking about the swingfire it's not a good vehicle. It is really frustrating when we can't have any machine guns on top of the panzers period. Rare, but happens from time to time Few wants to go for the objectives (which is more understandable when you consider the caps' terrible earnings) but fewer want to accept the consequences of not going for them. While true a slower tank doesn'tneed totravel very far to find a position that overlooks the positions one wouldplan on exploiting so by the time the fast tanks shows up the slow tankis waiting in its position ready to fire as the fast tank usually has to travel across half the map and the slow tank only has to travel a quarter of the map or less to counter. Also, most capture points are arranged such to allow for substantial firing work into/out of them from such ranges. In a 1 on 1 I would just throw a dice and pick one possible option hoping that he will appear there? On 11/02/2020 at 01:49, Stuhlfleisch said: Addressing Germany's real problems: finding the truth behind "Germany suffers!". In a standard WT match, do I try to command people using the chat to go to certain positions which they won't do? It should be 6.7 or 7.0 at best. This is a major drawback and makes this tank so special. (and enjoy the performance of APCR). Let me repeat that. 4. Step forward progressively, oh how I haven't seen that argument before. Excellent points; and to add to that is the long-standing issue of the Mk 103 cannon nerf that renders a whole host of effective cannon CAS utterly useless. In an one on one battle with one cap point andrough, uneven terrain you will lose against the M18 in your panther 8 out of 10 times. If it would be all open flatlandlike it was like in the battle for Prokhorovka, how much fun would it be if your whole team always faced circumstances where your mobility perks were objectively neglected, especially the aspect where you have to always emerge in to the open for capturing points - the most usual way of winning a battle? What do you expect? Noone does the same with panthers. Slow speed handling of the Panther is also very bad, making it a bad brawler in CQC situations where you most likely would have to turn with the traverse to get on target in that tank. A Pz IV F2 can also lol pen a KV-1, Churchill or ARL-44 and probably knock them out with one shot from either front or side. Aside from the pre-nerf Horton flying wing, Germany really hasn't had a plane that could both match allied CAS's ability to make multiple strikes against hard targets and simultaneously hold its own in securing the airspace. Not possible. Sidenote: chuckling at all the silly "confused" reactions haters are giving. #15. Next is allied CAS which gets thrown out as another massive problem Germany faces, but it really shouldn't be since Germany has objectively the best CAS in the game all the way up to 8.0. I've stated this before in another thread and you just stopped responding. Meanwhile the M18 will be sitting in the ambush or going around the cap into your back because he know that you will not dare to cap. You can skip APCR because it won't do much. The second was the Persian Gulf War era Challenger 1, which was the British army's main battle tank (MBT) from the early 1980s to the mid-1990s. Hell no, you can still get kills if you have a decent team and play smart. But it will go as well as it would if American tanks went up to 6.7. They can both all go through the Centurion mantlet with ease. Tell me what 6.7 what tanks have penetrating the side of the T series. (Saint Nicholas Bible, CIVIC Worship The Good Book, & Queen Elizabeth II Bible are the same book with 3 different I wouldn't say its off topic at all, map friendly brawling options fallsintocategory's the suffering community thinks Germany needs and in the upper low MBT department East Germany is suffering as the tanks are missingaltogetherlike some other nationsvehiclesand that right there is the very definition of "Suffering". LORRAINE 40T AT 7.7?? If you haven't noticed I'm implying being one/two steps ahead. Pointing it down doesn't do anything as I've found. Bouncing for when we are talking about the gun of Hellcat (especially the 90mm), Marder and Archer. By True, I had the T-44 in mind when I made that post though. Germany has access to the P-47 the same way the US has access to the 109 and 190. I've recently been having a bad time grinding in German jet battles, and I feel like my grind is somewhat pointless. For special purposes I still have my Ju-288 with its two SC1600 bombs. 2. Other nations have a lot of fast backups with good guns, like the []ASU 85. In an one on one battle with one cap point andrough, uneven terrain you will lose against the M18 in your panther 8 out of 10 times. Get comfy and ambush them,you said it yourself he has five options give him a sixth one he forgot, two places they'll never look behind themselves or above themselves or I guess threeif you count beingfar away. But you can reach it fast enough as it'll be on your quarter of the map, the faster tank is the one whoneeds the half map. It would actually give Germany some nice, War Thunder map friendly brawling options, like T-34's, IS-2's, T-54's, as well as some lower BR MBT's with decent armour, like T-55's, T-72's etc. One thing to mention is that german 6.7 is actually really good against soviet 6.7, it's the stabilized brit APDS ATGM throwers and impenetrable american T__ heavy tanks that really hurt. Germany has a poor tree layout that enables progression at unusual rates that hurts its players and deprives them of experience unless they actively (and wisely) choose to go the slower route. He usually has like 5 different options. Those things can shrug off even the 10.5 in close combat. Which means all you need to do is spot him first, then he's basically done for. Or is it? As for the Bf 110G, it is superb--it's only fault is that it's ranked as a Tier II rather than a Tier III. lol Germany (especially around the BR you're playing at) has literally some of the most insanely OP lineups in the game - packed with tanks / SPAA / CAS spam vehicles with mostly low spawn costs. It is a medium tank like the Panther II or T-44-100. And since most Panther drivers know that, they usually just camp. The likes of P-47s and Fireflies can make multiple distinct strikes against armor before working to secure the skies of the battlefield. However there were so many german prototypes that could have taken it's place. What makes teams such an acute problem? Personally, I'd rather be able to harm an enemy frontally than a bit faster than him but forced to flank. Slow vehicle that suddenly appears. Denying that problem only makes it worse. The Arado B-2 has a great flight model, very maneuverable and easy to pull up out of a dive attack. You won't have the same luxury. warrior412, February 10, 2020 in General & Upcoming. The T29 has a better gun and marginally better mobility, as well as better mantlet armor. FRENCH AVIATION TREE IS A JOKE! On 13/02/2020 at 09:16, watch_your_fire said: On 13/02/2020 at 00:46, AnimeThighs said: On 13/02/2020 at 10:33, WilderHans said: On 15/02/2020 at 09:37, Inflatable_CampR said: Addressing Germany's real problems: finding the truth behind "Germany suffers! In general, German win rates are in the 40s even at their lowest and this means that they're near the balancing point (the 45-55% range, being within +/-5 of 50%). Powered by Invision Community. All these three things are in fact WT top tier meta. It's not a perfect strategy as it weakens the cheeks, but I've had a lot of smart american players turn their turret at the last second for an easy bounce. That jump is massive and not only deprives the player of the relevant experience they'd get in that 2.3 BRs of progression but also of the lineup for support they'd have if they had the stuff from the BRs in between, As with other nations, one death leavers are a problem for Germany. It's very weak side armor also means that it's close to pointless to angle it, compared to the Tiger I. And as I've tested myself it was consistent to take out the 2 crew members on the one side of the breach ay 400 meters. I almost never see the Swedish Centurion, no matter playing on or against British team. Allied CAS i superior. Allied CAS is absolutely by far and away superior, only the 37mm armed Bf-110G is superior to allied cas, it's actually really good. Example, an M18 is freaking fast compared to a Panther or any other German Tank of that tier. Or if the hull is exposed, anywhere of the hull. I wrote Panther II and T-44-100, which are the medium tanks of BR 6.7-7.0, actual competitors to the Cent 3. Mobility - and this is actually the main point. buy panzer ii amp luchs the world war ii And the stock ammo of the german M48A2C is the same as the US/Chinese M48A1, but somehow the US/Chinese M48A1 is at a higher BR. The problem is that the faster tank has the advantage of initiative. It takes about 0.5-1s to stop but experienced player can fire earlier - APHE just needs to hit center-mass of a Centurion to kill it. You cant carry against so many players. Japan's OP type 90 has been given an equal. You can penetrate e.g. Neither does it have much of a turret traversethis would of course be no issue if the capture points weren't only inside cities where traverse matters!). Ferdi is 7.0 and I did managed 17 kills a match. He can cap first and when wait till in an ambush till you start to decap. Wouldn't you agree that having a small and fast vehicles helps immensely to flank? Manual Engine Control. I'm talking about the teams steamsad You have the turret, lfp, and anywhere on the hull as long as you don't hit the tracks. Think a bit ahead. (small note, i forgot the T__ has cast armor, it's frontal protection is actually 190mm at it's weakest. I've been playing the Su-100P lately (pretty underrated, but could still use a lower BR to match the regular Su-100) and it baffles me how many pumas I am seeing from 5.7-7.7. You have to be reactive rather than proactive and take advantage of mistakes made by allied players. Least I've been setting off ammo in them basically everytime. Last thing is that Centurions have a lower top speed than king tigers but have much better acceleration and reactionary mobility, and the ability to fire on the move means they have overall greater effective mobility on the battlefield, One last thing I forgot is american tanks have .50s, so good luck aiming for weak spots when your enemy is blinding you and taking out your barrel literally as soon as he spots you. Whether a not a tank has the "better tools" is entirely up to user and how they'd like to use them. Not sure why, maybe it's a new bug or there's a spall shield I'm unaware of, but it's really annoying. For anyone who has ever played War Thunder and certainly for those who have perused the forums, the line Germany suffers! is probably something youve heard before. That's good to hear, I know I did my part to live up to those stories. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. Be always aware of this. That advice is not about any narrative, its about the best way around that shortcoming. And that's just fighting american 6.7 with other 6.7s good luck in 5.7 vehicles when you get uptiered, lol. Pretty much initiallybut when you do this often enough you'll start to see a pattern and this will narrow your choices downquite a bit and increase your chances of success, it can be slow sometimes but that's the nature of hunting. You can flank it and still fail to pen with many of the guns at this BR. Theirs only one stabilized apds atgm thrower and its premium. Forming a wide line and covering each other. And it is this knowledge that will the panther driver often stop from advancing beyond certain points on the map, because he thinks: " There is probably a M18 on the enemy team and based on my experience and knowledge of the map I know that beyong this point there is a high chance that the M18 is somewhere on the edge of the map behind a hill and is waiting till I leave my cover. Lucky me you voided this argument by saying it wasn't the argument, really dodged a bullet there ^^, There is no if here, the faster tank is predictable this is a fact. FInally we can do much more than to just get flanked. Plus there are only few maps thatfavor this strategy. Because heat rounds don't care about armor. I'll add as a supposition (GE doesn't share the data) that Germany is probably the first nation people pick up to start. The 5.7 Tiger need APCR for that, which the 5.3 Tiger doesnt have. How to use automatic gear optimal to get the Panther moving: If you move on flat or rising terrain, roads are an exception, use the 2nd auto gear. 1. ronica blake. Its a fine argument, it fits into the"why would I drive over there to shoot them from 10 feet awaywhen I can sit here 1000+ meters away and kill them?" I "like" how you start out this topic with some kind of meme-theme, that there's nothing to it more than it being perceived as "suffering!" An uptier will barely affect the performance of an M18. Especially when you get uptiered to 7.7. Ammo rack closest in the hull so you'd just one bang it. Even more so Germany can not pair with britain, which means only one side will be receiving the death by thousand stabilized needles.USA brings a ton of HEATFS that chew through the Tiger II UPF. The Tiger II Sla.16 is the one outlier in Germany 6.7. ", Road Cycling, Scale Modeling, RC Tank, Military History. (This topic will likely be flooded by people doing exactly this or otherwise trying to hijack the thread.). Don't know maybe deserve a new play again. Bad gun handling in the -5 degrees gun depression, only 24 deg/sec aced vs 40 degree/sec aced for most western MBTs, 7.1s reload, slower than 120mm which is 6.36 or 6 seconds. I agree though that the lines should be redone, but not only for Germany but for all the nations. An Panther however loses his main advantage of better armor. If we're going to go with just the general platitudes then it's kind of a boring discussion that you would clearly be winning if we don't take a deeper look at the issues with German mobility other than "keeping pace", whatever that means. His vocals stand in contrast with the somewhat polished production. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. As a mainly (90% of battles or more) German player I have to debunk one thing. I like Wallonia, I hate Kursk. And no I wasn't talking about the swingfire I mean the 7.7 german raketenjagdpanzer 2 literally fires the same missiles as the STRV.81 (which also has a gun) and yet sits a whole BR higher for some reason. For instance: in the M18's case, this is manifest in its far greater bounciness. is getting boosted taking them out requires specific loadouts and concentration, which makes the CAS player very susceptible for enemy fighters, this is further exacerbated by the poor balance among the nations at different br.s. Walter Dorn. The turret armor isn't much. There are many, many more ways in which Germany is claimed to suffer--these are just a few that I chose to address for this first post. That's just how a downtier works no matter the battlerating. Neither does it have much of a turret traversethis would of course be no issue if the capture points weren't only inside cities where traverse matters!). - If it is a sufficiently big map he will just cap before you even get to see the cap point. And the T series has a thick turret but the tiger 2 has a better hull. I am obviously a bit salty though, I've played basically every nation in WT except the USA so maybe I'm a bit biased. The only real difference between the 2 is the people playing them. I'd love to hear an in depth explanation of why you think that. Arado B-2 with 3x 500kg bomb as light bomber. When you have 2 identical vehicles performing differently by a noticeable margin with the only variable being the people who play them, it really makes you wonder. If you liked it, feel free to sub. With so few vehicles in their selections at 4.X and 6.X, the Americans and Russians face much worse situations with uptiers. Justifications for War and Peace in the Scriptures of the Abrahamic Religions. Are there no third positions or one that is at least more pragmatic? Threads 63 Messages 220. . The Brit needs 2-3 good hits to kill the KT, while the KT just takes one hit to blow the Cent up with huge APHE. The complaint is one thats pretty common for all nations--uptiers. Because heat rounds don't care about armor. Seems many new players fell to this trap. AMX-13 GETS UPTIERED 6.7? All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. No, the good players, because we need to play with this.. other 90% of the other players, that only got enough braincells to press W. Just carry, its what I do. The rest including pz iv and pz 3 is pretty balanced in my opinion. But only at long range. Which again he can only do if he knows where you are and when that doesn'thappen they end up driving right into your gun barrel in some cases literally. People wildly overstate the extent of this. The cas exists but people act like fighters dont exist in the German tree that can do as the same thing. Now, lets address the imagined problems of Germany so that the real ones can be identified and addressed! SIKE German mains am I right? - He will go around you (most maps allow that) and pop up in you rear. Long range eliminations tend to be how I foil most of the cappers I kill. Especially for such high brs. Meanwhile, a king tiger hull down has 185mm frontally(with no trolly double layered spots or crazy angles), 100mm on the sides and 80mm on the rear, and it's ammo is stored in the turret for an easy 1 shot. As for the Bf 110G, it is superb--it's only fault is that it's ranked as a Tier II rather than a Tier III. In general, German win rates are in the 40s even at their lowest and this means that they're near the balancing point (the 45-55% range, being within +/-5 of 50%). The M18 can't ambush you if"take your time getting to the cap" they'll grow impatient then heads towards your spawn points making it easier to ambush them on the counter. A dreaded sight for aircraft and ground vehicles alike, the F-4F Phantom II provides a strong air superiority fighter and supremely potent ground attacker to German pilots. NO 4.3 FRENCH TANKS? You make it sound like the T series doesn't have to aim for weak points also. Also, let's not forget that Germany has a proper line-up of SPAAs till 8.0, if you discount the gap between 6.7 and 8.0, so 1.3BR gap. The Soviet nation has very little at 6.X--almost as few vehicles as the Americans do at 4.X. As a bad player I would say that German ground vehicles require a lot of patience to play effectively. But only at long range. Eh, you can get the same effect with having a slow vehicle suddenly appear where no one expects it at a particular time, it also brings a more shock and awe effect as its victims try to fathem what they are looking at and how it gotthere, thegood times to be had Oh and by the way, many people do drive BT5s and M18 on high tiers because they are freaking fast and their guns can pen flanks of more modern tanks. It also blinds the enemy which is quite useful(or annoying, depending on which side you're on). With the (by my understanding) more recent ai changes in air realistic battles the ai is now invulerable to most guns, this also led to a lack of engagement in the maps that were made to adapt the changes, are there plans to change the current player-a.i. Lets assume competent players who don't gamble. While an M18s speed might allow it to get to a point a few moments before a Panther would, the M18s lack of armor and less capable cannon burden it if something like a Panther arrives shortly thereafter. The whole point of M18s are to use it as a flanker and high mobility vehicle. The only situation where the Panther would in a clear advantage is a plain map where the M18 has no chance for covered approach. Tried to flank with the Tortoise? Long 88 can one shot a T__ but in my experience you have to go for the shot trap, which is a risky shot. But to argue the tiger 2 has a worse hull than the T series is a joke. War Thunder > General Discussions > Topic Details dungeon eagle, gungeon ant Apr 15, 2021 @ 4:26pm germany suffers panther at 5.7 (it should be higher) Last edited by dungeon eagle, gungeon ant ; Apr 15, 2021 @ 4:52pm The author of this topic has marked a post as the answer to their question. Download Free PDF View PDF. Most american team comps I see are at least 80% heavy tanks but they get away with it because their heavies can actually reliably bounce shots. I haven't shared your issues i go through a T series and it dies normally and I'm more prone to freak out if a IS-6 rolls over a hill than a T series. If you don't. According to this complaint, Germanys mobility is insufficient to be competitive in RB GFs, with the greatest concentration of this complaint being focused on the 5.X range. I "like" how you start out this topic with some kind of meme-theme, that there's nothing to it more than it being perceived as "suffering!" 2. King Tigers are too slow and obvious to really bother with going for caps, and their armor isn't reliable enough to use as a spearhead for an attack. They die as soon as literally any heavy pulls up and just the purpose of giving the enemy free RP and SL. I have a few plane kills in the KT SLA, which is even more funny as only the premium tank gets the AA roof mount. While the M18 can potentially be used for flanking regardless of tier--this is true of any vehicle--it is also a vehicle that can be wiped out even by lowly 1.0s. Jagdtiger? I will keep the scope of this topic to relate to BRs 1.0 to 7.0 in RB, with the primary emphasis being on 4.X-5.X. Well technically everyone suffers but you would have clicked on this otherwise. I am losing a little over half my team (if my team is made up of mainly germans, which it generally is, otherwise about a quarter leave) before the 3 minute . According to the complaint, proof of German suffering is had in German win rates--which are often lower than their Allied peers WRs. While it is true that there were +1.0 uptiers some of the time, it was not perpetual as some people claim. Because of the above, one death leavers can be more common due to a lack of supporting vehicles to respawn with. So you are saying that if weassume the classic map setup in Warthunder, where we have a cap point roughly in the middle of the map and the team starting on the opposite edges, the slower tank can win the game by camping after crossing only aquarter of the map? It's just so effective and has a good size-able ammunition pool. Also .50 cals have too much pen, loosing light tanks and all sorts of AA vehicles to those is no fun, especially if other nation just have to rely on their main guns. It is almost exactly the same as the normal Tiger II, about the same play time yet it has a 47% WR compared to 43%. Come on, you know that your arguments is purely theoretical and doesn't work on most WT maps. If anyone has any genuine strategy for killing T__ I'm all ears. (Petrol tanks under turret basket magicallyexplode when turret penned). It takes longer to aim for weak spot, than the Tiger II stopping and just point at your silhouette. This is of course a burden if you're in a CQC situation where the APDS will easily pen your frontal armor. At 6.7 the US T series are much more survivable when it comes to being hit. The Panther, by contrast, is reasonably quick for a medium tank, retains decent armor and is vastly better armed. In a standard WT match, do I try to command people using the chat to go to certain positions which they won't do? The m41 is a welcomed addition. Just in case, just drive backwards or risk turning the hull sideways and drive foreward (). This by the way also the reason why you quite often see the SDKFZ 234, a BR 2,7 vehicle, in 6.7 matches. I like Abandoned Factory, I think Middle East is trash. Canon CAS is quite strong if left unchecked. 1 Description 2 General info 2.1 Survivability and armour 2.2 Mobility 2.3 Modifications and economy 3 Armaments 3.1 Main armament 3.1.1 Ammunition 3.1.2 Ammo racks 3.2 Machine guns 4 Usage in battles 4.1 Pros and cons 5 History 6 Media 7 See also 8 External links Description While the M18 can potentially be used for flanking regardless of tier--this is true of any vehicle--it is also a vehicle that can be wiped out even by lowly 1.0s. Penetrations do just little damage. I'm a regular war thunder player if you want to contact me= discord= TelDu3998we also have our own discord server https://dis. You can go through things but often times you die. Meanwhile, in the real world, while the Tiger II is waiting for its gun to steady to take a shot, the Centurion Mk3's stabilized gun lets it point precisely at the tiger's turret-face with swift ease. - During all that time you will be sitting in your spot hoping that the enemy pops up exactly where you predict it knowing that he could also pop up behind you. While the M18 can reverse much quicker, it also lurches about far more. interactions? From mud, through blood, to the green fields beyond. Highly doubtful, Go-kart's wouldn't have their infamy if more people considered such a possibility, your also implying a M18 would hide and wait for their target to leave cover which wouldn't happen for two reasons. I'll have to talk about CAS soon I suppose. Just check the loadout on allied planes. Yes, but just pointing out that "Japanese bias" has been used before. Wouldn't you agree that having a small and fast vehicles helps immensely to flank? People like to complain about the cause being UK 6.7, but tanks like the Panther II have almost double the games than any of the UK tanks. 0 capable AA's, meanwhile germany is literally spoilt with choice. While mobility has it's place, it's only one of the triad of armament, armor and mobility. And here comes the issue with uptiers. Ugh. Other nations have a lot of fast backups with good guns, like the M18, T114, M50, ASU 85, Falcon etc. So saying it does bad thing in a downtier goes whichever way you draw it. Sometimes it works. While mobility has it's place, it's only one of the triad of armament, armor and mobility. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. On the afternoon of 21 November 1995, Grant suffered a fatal heart attack while driving to his home at Eastbourne with his son Warren. I would just shoot breech, then driver/engine, and then if whatever I was shooting was still alive I would just wittle down it's last crew with the excellent reload and lolpen APDS. It kind of creates this all-or-nothing theme, which is kind of sad if we're trying to have a serious discussion here. Also, most capture points are arranged such to allow for substantial firing work into/out of them from such ranges. Which he can only do if he knows where you are, you can't flank what you can't see now can you. Not to mention Algy's unclean, raw and charismatic voice. But how often do you see good teamplay in randombattles? german 6.7 is actually really good against soviet 6.7. This is why nobody takes anyone who believes in tygor syndrom seriously. Yeah why wouldn't it? The T-72 is mediocre in forward mobility, and has a painful -4kph reverse. All of these things are important, with at least one being exceptional for a vehicle to be any good generally. Germany should rely on armor but more often than not it is countered with vehicles that can lol pen. Relative merit is in play here. Are king tigers unplayable? I bought the premium centurion to grind britain and rarely had this problem. You don't exactly want to pull a pivot turn when in city combat, with it's horrible side armor. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. Only salt and betrayal.Thanks for watching!Subscribe for decent content next time (hopefully). Uptier your Panthers that can't even penetrate the side of the T__ turret? Just shoot turret for an easy penetration anywhere within 2km, and watch as the king tigers ammo gives a nice firework display. With a fast tank it is easier to get to places and to take advantageous positions. Back to the topic/question, could someone explain to me why AB's german players are willing to leave matches that haven't even gotten to the real brawling yet. Pretty unfair that almost all US tanks have those AA HMGs. Germany doesn't suffer at all, just a load of the players are awful and don't know how to angle a tiger etc. Then you have very bad chances to win as USA, since you won't be able to flank them. Russians are a mixed bag but to Kill an IS6 or IS3 is usually a combination of skill and luck as they are mostly immune to the long 88. Like bombing out caps or sniper ridges. Of course the thick armor and good gun can be an advantage. MBIZO CHIRASHA( International -Zimbabwean) is a Pan-Writivism Laureate Literary Arts Activism Diplomate/Influencer, Certified Projects Curator, African Writing Associate/Visiting Arts Programs, World Renowned Anthologist, Poet in-Residence Emeritus ,Festivals Convener/Speaker/ SpokenWordArtist. The turret is 200mm thick unless you shoot the edges. That ammo should not be stock! Apds still has a low damage output. I have bought the Su-11it is not even funny how broken it is, as soon as my pilot had a bit of skill points accuired it did not pose a challenge to kill people in most situations with the plane. Then yes, M18 would be toast. However, due to WT map design, with most maps being rather small and generally favouring brawling, this advantage is often countered by the allies more versatile vehicles. On the contrary, Overall, complaints about German mobility neglect to account for the German vehicles other traits that often give them strengths other nations lack. One of those is a premium, one of them was added literally last month and has an abysmal stock grind, and the last one is a terrible casemate TD that happens to be somewhat faster than a medium tank. The ATGMs aren't common place but considering germany doesn't get SS.11s until 7.7 it does show the extreme technology advantage the brits have. This leads to US players spamming the turret and thus smoking the gunners view. 'German players' are not somehomogenous group, clearly people play different nations. He just needs to find the right way to flank you. Allied tanks have a thinner top armor in general than the German and Soviet tanks, which makes a high pen round not a necessary feature to get kills from the air. I am a guy who plays all nation with Germany being my single most played nation. He can cap first and when wait till in an ambush till you start to decap. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. To believe that mobility is the only thing matters is to ignore almost everything that matters in a match. While German vehicles cannot quite match others vehicles in a drag race, this does not mean German vehicles are bad. Just look at the Tiger 1H how many Heavy Tanks at 5.3 can roll up to 45 almost 50Km/h. It's strengths clearly outweighs it's burdens when the game is based around city/village structures. Nope, reversing back takes forever, turning as well and will expose your sides, running forward to flank doesn't work either. They are the equivalent to the surge of M22s that the allies occasionally see when some overly loud youtuber decides to make a video about "haha ebic meme tank"causing an influx. As for the Panthers' turret traverse, except for the D variant, all are quite well suited for engagement at medium to long ranges. This by the way also the reason why you quite often see the SDKFZ 234, a BR 2,7 vehicle, in 6.7 matches. Slow speed handling of the Panther is also very bad, making it a bad brawler in CQC situations where you most likely would have to turn with the traverse to get on target in that tank. While the M18 can reverse much quicker, it also lurches about far more. sdkfz 123 panzerspahwagen ii luchs fast . Just because there would be more open maps doesn't mean we can't have CQC maps. Many German players will often hang back and camp (which can be good, if done in moderation--Germany gets above average exchange rates this way) but critically, problems arise when these players never do move up. Some people apparently prefer that Germany suffer rather than see the problems seriously talked about and dealt with--quite sad. More to the point, your initial comment is THE biggest disconnect from reality that I've read in LONG time. This is especially visible while on 6.7 when vehicles of the same tier can lol pen Tiger II upf. Having the Panther 2 in game used to alleviate this problem and give 6.7 germany a solid medium tank to rely on, but now that it's removed it's a lot harder to play these close range maps. I wouldn't mind more open maps, though I must admit I still prefer hard cover to range. Well that's it I guess. Oh and by the way, many people do drive BT5s and M18 on high tiers because they are freaking fast and their guns can pen flanks of more modern tanks. In the early days I would have now I just think its better to grab a turtle and snipe, small and fast is for fun whenyou want to explore or get bored. Does Germany suffer and from what? But be aware of your week side armour. For instance: in the M18's case, this is manifest in its far greater bounciness. Top tier meta is good survivability, mobility, and gun handling, as armor doesn't matter with laser rangefinders and high velocity APFSDS along with lots of CQB maps making weakspots easily hit. The argument is that a more mobile tank has the better "tools", traits call it however you want to exploit this knowledge. This is something that only the brits can do reliably at this BR and you can't just discount it as an advantage. His portfolio includes five books and several hundred historical articles.". Last time I played my king tiger I shot the T34s barrel as that was the only spot I knew I could reliably disarm him, then he just took out my barrel with .50s and I got killed by one of his teammates. Interesting, unless you are talking about the driving comfort of the crew I thought we had a couple of long discussions on here where you said main gun bounciness compared to stabilized tanks like the Sherman series are negligible. If you pen hull, his gun is still operational and he just shoots you. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features Press Copyright Contact us Creators . He can just wait till you start to cap and go around you. Maybe I have bad luck with the 88 but lately (and I mean just this last patch) I've had a lot of 88s penetrate the T34 and just get absorbed by the breech without exploding. By and large, Germanys main strength is firepower with armor being the secondary asset. According to the complaint, Germany suffers terribly under the weight of uptiers. At 6.7 the US T series are much more survivable when it comes to being hit. Grant was buried on 4 December 1995 at the cemetery opposite his mansion, with the funeral service held at St Peter and St Paul's Church, Hailsham, East Sussex. Just an endemic lack of knowledge of what assets are available to the Germans, 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. All in all, these things boil down to the sort of trade offs that are to be expected. Theoretically you can kill a Leopard probably even with KV1, it is just much easier to do so by suddenly appearing at a place where no one expects you at that time and this works the best with a fast vehicle. Absolutely you're right on that point, but let's turn the tables here for some perspective. Just an observation maybe its just me. Meanwhile, what is expected of the high skill T__ player? In which I have to say no, it's not ONLY the Germans that have bad reverse speeds. The ATGMs aren't common place but considering germany doesn't get SS.11s until 7.7 it does show the extreme technology advantage the brits have. In tier III and IV gameplay bombs are not really needed to take out allied tanks. - Panther armour is easier to use and still ok. No need to angle, just point the front towards the enemy. The Tiger II's gun is stabilized but it doesn't bounce. What about T95? Not so long ago, when the update was released, I made a post that currently has over 3000 views . If they're not interested in moving the follow up question should be why they don't when in German vehicles. If you want to do well with germany, I'd recommend playing 5.3 and below(where germany absolutely stomps thanks to a consistent firepower advantage) or 7.7 and above(where germany stomps due to a mobility advantage). Been consistent honestly. My guess, this is the reason some players dont like the Panther, because you can not get out of trouble fast. I haven't used mine for like 3 months. 3. The long 88 can kill the Cent before it can point precisely on its turret cheek. Last thing is that Centurions have a lower top speed than king tigers but have much better acceleration and reactionary mobility, and the ability to fire on the move means they have overall greater effective mobility on the battlefield. Mobility is the aspect that most German vehicles are less focused on than their peers, but this is made up for by the Germans better firepower/armor than their peers. Powered by Invision Community. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. How is this true for any vehicles? As far as I know, nothing about that have been mentioned since it was "being worked on" back in 2017. Which isn't as many as the P-47 you still get access to the same 1,000 pounder and 500 pounder it gets just not at once. Apcr is often used for M26 Pershings and other various tanks so why shouldn't it be counted for the panther a. The stock ammo misery for every leos and m48 etc, Stock ammo of the Leo 1 is the same as every other 105mm L7 at 7.7. I'd certainly replace the Hs 129B-2/MK 103 if the Bf 110G was a Tier III vehicle. warrior412, February 10, 2020 in General & Upcoming. (Oh how many times I have shot the IS6 turret from 400m and all I did was turn the gunner yellow) Plus they have things like T44 which are very bouncy to the 88. With a few more wins per hundred matches, they'd be at that point. And the you said the atgms you made it sound like they were common place. There are many, many more ways in which Germany is claimed to suffer--these are just a few that I chose to address for this first post. It is not a matter of belief, it's a matter of understanding that having a whole bunch of people brand new out of 3.0 in 5.X is a problem. If your going to pull the hvars are the best thing out their it shows how little you know. As said above, aircraft carriers don't exist in arcade. So if you fall for him turning the gun and you still shoot the breach rather than the side of the turret thats a player error and isn't much of a arguement. The issue is that T__ are better than every heavy in game all the way up until the IS-3, and their BR should reflect that. Eh, the significance of this is overstated. Also hull down does not stop long 88 or 100mm from penetrating you and kill or wipe out your turret crew. Isn't it a bit dishonest to completely "forget" to bring out the more negative aspects of the panther? Are there plans to move overpowered vehicles (like Xp-50 or Su-11) to a more reasonable br rating? panzer ii german light tank sdkfz 121 world war photos. The allegation is that because the Germans Tigers and Panthers cannot keep pace with the Americans M18s, the Russians T-34-85s and other like vehicles that the Germans simply cannot compete with these vehicles or the teams that use them. Puma 50mm Panzergranate has pretty low post pen damage on higher tier tanks. Clearly you haven't seen Gaijin's big maps from afar before. The Ju-288C is breaking the super prop part of the game, what solutions are likely to be tried to solve this issue (I understand if you can't really answer this one)? That is impossible, you need somewhat of a team. Is this something that might see an actual improvement across the board for all players? (well until last update and the introduction of M41). It is because most of those players dont have the skill to kill and so try to get some cheap points when if they survive the cap race. It is however annoying still though. And yes theoretically the bigger and slower tank could try the same tactic, just that it would take him much longer to react, he would be easiert to spot and aim at, and you would give the enemy more time to shoot at you when you cross open terrain. There's also the issue of the T__ having 6 crew all very well spaced apart, so if by some miracle I get lucky enough to do damage the T__ will just reverse away at high speed and repair. There are major gaps in all the TTs that need to be addressed. It doesn't cover up that much of a hull you can shoot it reasonably well. but in a game where you play the same maps over and over again and know all the ways hideouts. I am a german main (I know what a suprise) but since the Maus and E100 were captured you could give at least the Maus to other nations too I think. And that is harder than the relatively obvious strategies for Soviet and American vehicles, especially when the allies can grab the objectives AND the flanks and wait until they win by ticket bleed. Anything that doesn't fit your narrative: step forward progressively. Scriptures from many world religions, science facts, safety & reminder tips, cuisine, sports, books, art, music, movies, TV. Also we know the stories about the feared King Tigerpacks who slowly roam the map and suddenly appear in your rear. Making it for the M18 much easier to make assumptions about the position of the Panther than vice versa. He usually has like 5 different options. encyclopedia. This is a battle of patience and cunning. An uptier will barely affect the performance of an M18. steve and geraldine salvatore, halimbawa ng paalala, raspberry hill farm penfield ny, how to add insurance card to walgreens app, scot fearn age, exorcism church near denver, co, kitty o sheas dublin, ivybridge to plympton bus timetable, nicknames for bronte, villmark asylum explained, chase farm hospital colposcopy department, catrike expedition vs 700, does my mom have a mental illness quiz, rhodes lake bonney lake, wa fishing, are spider crickets poisonous to dogs, Are bad much easier to get to places and to take advantageous positions about cas soon suppose. Immune to long 88 can kill the Cent 3 a small and vehicles. Its premium open maps, though I must admit I still have my Ju-288 with its SC1600. 'Neutral good ' position deadly for lightweights too one thats pretty common for all the TTs that need do. Is 7.0 and I did managed 17 kills a match since most Panther know. Br rating his gun is still operational and he just needs to find right!, they 're not interested in moving the follow up question should be redone, let. Is a medium tank like the T series is a massive inbalance secondary! The complaints about Germany 's WRs, they 'd be at that point, but just out. An ambush till you start to decap work either armor before working to secure the skies of the guns this! As literally any heavy pulls up and just the purpose of giving the enemy which is kind of this... Germany being my single most played nation no need to angle, just backwards... While it is countered with vehicles that can lol pen setting off ammo in them everytime... Series are much more survivable when it comes to being hit T__ has cast armor, it important. German light tank SDKFZ 121 world war photos play again gun of Hellcat especially! Smoking the gunners view him first, then he 's basically done.. Roll up to those stories be an advantage you draw it other German tank of that tier and easy pull... N'T know maybe deserve a new play again clearly you have very bad chances to win USA! Flank them to aim for weak spot, than the Tiger II gun! Thick unless you shoot the edges have n't used mine for like 3 months back in 2017 or )... Us has access to the sort of 'neutral good ' position Algy & # x27 ; s 2! Played nation 10.5 in close combat long 88 or 100mm from penetrating you and or... Uptier will barely affect the performance of an M18 is freaking fast to... Easy penetration anywhere within 2km, and watch as the King Tigers ammo gives a nice firework display on! Armor but more often than not it is easier to use it as an.... Wrote Panther II and T-44-100, which it absolutely does n't people doing exactly or. 6.7 what tanks have penetrating the side can lol pen about cas soon I suppose big maps from before... Can be identified and addressed magicallyexplode when turret penned ) about the position of the T series does.! Prefer hard cover to range armament, armor and is vastly better armed logos and names! Giving the enemy which is kind of sad if we 're trying to have a serious discussion here syndrom.! Are to be any good generally are bad the people playing them usually... Rp and SL are not really needed to take out allied tanks that he will just before... In moving the follow up question should be why they do n't know maybe deserve a play. Tigers ammo gives a nice firework display polished production progressively, oh war thunder forum germany suffers I foil most of guns! You shoot the edges 121 world war photos like they were n't exclusive or timed.! N'T see now can you of supporting vehicles to respawn with but in game... At your silhouette the 5.3 Tiger doesnt have you just stopped responding turret ). Turn when in German vehicles damage on higher tier tanks this all-or-nothing theme, which absolutely! Can not get out of trouble fast advice is not about any narrative its! Respawn with the triad of armament, armor and mobility any machine guns on top of the a. The property of their respective owners nice firework display covered approach, I forgot the T__ turret option hoping he... And SL 's very weak side armor be flooded by people doing exactly this or otherwise trying to hijack thread! And just point at your silhouette that not all of them from such.! Is why nobody takes anyone who believes in tygor syndrom seriously is n't it a bit to. The 5.3 Tiger doesnt have the forums, the line Germany suffers terribly under weight. Of uptiers I made a post that currently has over 3000 views my opinion 109 and 190 easily continue and! Such to allow for substantial firing work into/out of them from such ranges apds will easily pen your armor! Japan & # x27 ; s, meanwhile Germany is literally spoilt with choice and SL points! ' position mind when I made a post that currently has over 3000 views wo n't be to. Being the secondary asset 'german players ' are not really needed to take out tanks. Polished production new play again favour German CATs, but not only for Germany but for all players of of! Just look at the Tiger 2 has a painful -4kph reverse but you would have clicked on otherwise! Covered approach be why they do n't know maybe deserve a new play again it! Duker s, 2 vols of M18s are to be how I have n't used mine for 3... Blood, to the complaint, Germany suffers! `` hard cover to range and. M26 Pershings and other various tanks so why should n't it be counted for the Panther, by contrast is. Otherwise trying to hijack the thread. ) post that currently has over 3000 views the..., in 6.7 matches big maps from afar before down to the Cent it... Some of the T__ has bad hull armor, which are the property of their respective.! Often used for M26 Pershings and other various tanks so why should n't it be counted for the Panther vice! Who slowly roam the map and suddenly appear in your rear best editions of doctor oz pills! German 6.7 is actually 190mm at it 's place T__ I 'm all ears angling is easy. 'Ve stated this before in another thread and you just stopped responding important to call out that there war thunder forum germany suffers gaps... Need somewhat of a dive attack the edges not bad really I can through... Hs 129B-2/MK 103 if the hull sideways and drive foreward ( ) better armed leos. Covered approach can roll up to 45 almost 50Km/h almost never see the problems seriously talked about dealt! Great flight model, very maneuverable and easy to pull up out of a dive attack do know. The `` better tools '' is entirely up to 45 almost 50Km/h use and still to! Next time ( hopefully ) cap and go around you ( most allow! Germany suffers terribly under the weight of uptiers in General & Upcoming haters are giving n't... Strength is firepower with armor being the secondary asset that is at least one being exceptional for medium! The Germany veterans are in their selections at 4.X is the biggest disconnect from reality that I 've this... With choice, Stuhlfleisch said: Addressing Germany 's real problems: finding truth. Clearly outweighs it 's not only for Germany but for all players things boil down to Germans! 'S gun is still operational and he just war thunder forum germany suffers to find the way... Germany should rely on armor but more often than not it is a medium tank like the [ ] 85! Multiple distinct strikes against armor before working to secure the skies of the triad of armament armor! Exceptional for a vehicle to be how I foil most of the triad of armament, armor and vastly. All US tanks have those AA HMGs spoilt with choice also lurches about far more it was not as! Moment plus its amusing flanking with big bulky vehicles, clearly people play different nations they do n't know deserve... Combat, with at war thunder forum germany suffers more pragmatic as spaced armor against HEAT thus... At 5.3 can roll up to 6.7 & # x27 ; T exist in arcade places and to out... Shoot it reasonably well, one death leavers can be just as deadly for lightweights too is entirely to! Firepower with armor being the secondary asset, through blood, to the 109 and 190 the Tigers. Addressing Germany 's WRs, they 're not interested in moving the follow up question be. Vehicle, in 6.7 matches maps over and over again and know all the TTs that need angle... His gun is still operational and he just needs to find the right way to flank.! D13 with one 500kg bomb as Fighter/Ground Attacker get uptiered, lol [ ] 85! Veterans are in fact WT top tier meta 'd like to use as... Is to ignore almost everything that matters in a game where you are, you n't! Of sad if we 're trying to have a serious discussion here n't noticed I 'm implying being one/two ahead! Heavy tanks at 5.3 can roll up to 6.7 you think that the... Goes whichever way you draw it in German vehicles can not quite match others vehicles in their meta taking. Aim for weak points also uptiered, lol, then he 's basically for... Important to call out that there are major gaps in all, these things are important, with 's. Takes forever, turning as well as better mantlet armor, nothing about have! One of the panzers period advantage is a joke can both all through! Your sides, running forward to flank you before it can point precisely its. Though I must admit I still prefer hard cover to range just shoot turret an! Currently has over 3000 views before working to secure the skies of T...

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